Are you ready to exit the matrix?
Investing in his first property at 18, and starting his first business shortly after, Nathan Birch was able to ‘retire’ at just 24. He has appeared on such programs as 7 news, Sunday Night and Triple J’s Hack and his story is so incredible it’s hard to believe!
We delve into so much more than just investing today, Nathan has in his own words, some alternative views about the entire systems that we are born into and some really thought-provoking commentary in regards to money.
Some of the topics we cover today include:
– Property Investing
– Is Australian property heading for a crash?
– How to finance more than 6 properties
And much more!
It’s a big one today so maybe grab a coffee, sit back and enjoy.
Nathan talks about the Financial Claims Scheme (government guarantee of $250,000) being removed last year, but this is not the case. The FCS is still in place FYI
I could only last 15 mins sorry AFB. My thoughts are Mr Birch is on a self promotion campaign as he’s now spruiking developments in bulk, which every person who started investing in property because they wanted to become super rich eventually realises that the only way to become super rich is by starting a business. The number of property spruikers who sell new builds and make massive commissions from developers is sickening and he’s joined the shit show. Within 30 mins he eluded to how he wanted to become a billionaire by 40, unless he starts a unicorn company then the only way to do that is to become a property developer. ‘So, Nathan how did you buy properties so cheap in the beginning?’ After evading the question multiple times and rambling on about useles blabber this is where I ended the podcast. I am sure he evaded a lot more questions. I feel his only motive was self promotion. God I could elaborate endlessly about his tactics and agenda but a simple google search will suffice (binvested google reviews of 2.6 says it all). I am sure he hussled and worked hard and he’s the first to blow his own trumpet about this and I’m sure he still does hustle as he’s probably been listening to way to much of Gary Vaynerchuk. But good on you, everyone who invests in property has to work hard and bust their guts to begin with, thanks for the epiphany. He knows you get rich from business not property investing otherwise as Peter thornhill highlights wouldn’t all the banks and businesses just buy all the properties ding, ding, ding. Oh and his appearance on Hack was appalling. I’ll do the readers the courtesy of not using any perfanity even though every second word out of his mouth starts with f and ends with ing. He is so far up his own backside that he is totally oblivious to the struggles of people who suffer from mental health, homelessness, drug and alocohol addiction, systemic family abuse and poverty it made me want to vomit when listening to him on Hack.
Here’s one of his promotional videos and take not of his thoughts on Warren Buffet😂 ph and how stupid people are. Unbelievable!
Sorry for the negative comment AFB but sometimes views just have to shared.
And why is he defaulting on repayments and selling down properties if his portfolio is generating over $500k net income? I hoped you asked him about this later in the interview but if you did I am sure he evaded the question or answered it with some elobarate answer. The contrast between the advice of Nathan and Peter Thornhill just doesn’t compare. Peter Thornhill, focus on career, family, living below your means, wanting for less, being content, keeping investing simple and investing for income compared to buy off the market deals in bulk, get rich, buy expensive cars bla bla bla.
But I’m sure due to his marketing ability and ambitious nature more people will follow the advice of Nathan birch rather than me Thornhill
All good on the comment mate, I can feel your passion through the screen!
Interesting take on the man, I enjoy comments whether they’re positive or negative.
Have you personally dealt with him/company or just from what you’ve heard?
He’s story is extremely interesting whatever you look at it.
I think Thornhills hatred for property is a little bit extreme if I’m being honest. The banks not investing directly in propety is hardly confirmation that you can’t turn a nice profit.
I totally agree. He has done well for himself while so young but there is a point where you can sell out. Making money off others is not a good business practice when they don’t get what they pay for. For me, personally, I do not want to follow people like this.
Nathan seems like the guy who will declare bankruptcy in three years time and blame everyone else.
Gareth, so true.
I notice his book is playing to the tune of the Robert Kiyosaki and Peter Schiffer conspiracy crowd. He must spend a lot of time listening to Rich dad poor dad radio. I’m surprised he hasn’t started a gold bullion company. Or maybe he has 🤔.
Didn’t you know Bitcoin is the Newbold bullion?
I haven’t used his services before. When I was on the property investment bandwagon or the research led me to the guys at ‘the right property group’ and ‘empower wealth’ but subject to which state you want to invest in. 80% of of my research indicated to steer clear of binvested for buyers agency. I agree his story is interesting and when he invested in property it was a totally different lending environment. I’m sure you’ve read 0-200 properties by Steve McKnight. Similar story and Steve knows that gravy train is over. Where you could burrow 100+ percent of the value of a property well of course you could quickly accumulate properties in a short period of time and yes since that period because of cheap money asset prices have increase significantly. Even in lower socio economic and out ring areas. And when rates do rise these people who are leveraged to the hilt and holding multiple properties are going to feel the pinch.
Peter is anti property but I don’t think it’s a matter of you can’t make money in property it’s more about the most optimal return and investment strategy. He strongly believes that is achieved through investing in shares and for income, not property.
I don’t know Nathan personally l and I my comments certainly aren’t a personal attack on his character more on his motives and service. When you’re goal is to become rich (billionaire)rather than providing value And serving others than collateral damage isn’t a concern.
it Appears that the narrative off his book is doom and gloom and a looming economic crisis. If that was the care then why the hell would anyone suggest to burrow, leverage up and buy property? Surely the best play would be to pay down debt (ppor ASAP), work on increasing your income and investing surplus and keeping debt free. Holding multiple properties and being highly leveraged would be disastrous of there was an economic crises
It’s in the podcast but Nathan talks about the threat or hyperinflation and what happens to fiat currency when politicians continue to print more and more money in an effort to keep the economy afloat.
In a nutshell, those who have saved Aussie dollars and have it sitting in a bank risk the value of those dollars being eroded through hyperinflation if that were to occur.
Now do I think that’s going to happen? I’ve honestly got no clue but I can see what he is talking about at least and in the event of hyperinflation, those who are leveraged seek to gain monumentally (if you can afford to hold) because the real value of the debt will shrink due to the inflation.
Think about borrowing $50k in the 70s and never paying it off until 2019. $50k back then was a lot harder to save then it would be today.
Hyperinflation would have the same affect only much quicker.
I tend to steer clear of anyone making predictions about the economy. But if hyperinflation was to occur than you want to hedge your bets. So what would be the best inflation hedge. Well technically Gold according to hstorical returns. Of course holding cash in a bank during hyper inflation would be terrible as it’s value would be eroded as the cost of a basket of good skyrocketed. You’d be better of using your money to wipe your arse than buying toilet paper. Real estate during hyperinflation tends to underperform as the yields are low, unemployment is high, people need to sell etc. Not a chance in hell I’d be putting my money in gold. I’d much prefer to be debt free and invested in income producing assets that keep pace with inflation. And yes what he says is correct. If hyper inflation occurred the loans value is less, but in order to service these loans people wages would need to increase so they could afford to buy a basket of goods tomorrow. People need to buy essentials before servicing loans. So I’m theory if you can hold property during hyper inflation you will come out in a much better financial position. For most people though I’m not sure how practical this is. Which is why I think he’s using this whole threat of hyper inflation possibility as a marketing tactic to generate more business, like Robert Kiyosaki now does.
With the world about to implode, I’m shocked you made the call to move to London. Surely country Vic would be a safer bet. 😉 I jest.
Interesting cast, definitely different from many of your others. While I’m not on board with a lot of what Nathan said, it’s certainly thought provoking.
One point I did take particular issue with was Nathan’s statement that the $250,000 Financial Claims Scheme (FCS) guarantee “was removed” in Feb 2018 (timestamp 1:28:41). I appreciate that opinions get aired on podcasts, but this opinion is simply factually inaccurate, and could incite real fear in anybody who didn’t do their research to fact-check his statement.
Unless there’s a conspiracy afoot involving APRA, the FCS is most definitely in place. As recently as Dec 2018, APRA updated their list hundreds of Authorised Deposit-taking Institutions (ADIs), such as banks, credit unions, etc, that covered by the guarantee. The list is here – https://www.fcs.gov.au/which-adis-are-covered
You’ve got a good following nowadays, you’ve got sponsorship, so there is a level of seriousness to the podcast. It’d be great if you could post an update to the show notes so that listeners have a factually accurate listening experience, balanced with Nathan’s thought-provoking opinions.
Good on you, Andy – well said. We don’t want a run on banks after all 🙂
Glad you made this post Andy I had come here to do the same thing!
I’m all for alternative viewpoints/ conspiracy theories but at least base them in facts
I’ve turned into quite the risk taker now right 😂!
Good call on the FCS mate. I’ve added a note above to clear that up. I’ve sent Nath a message to see if it was something he was referring to that maybe got a bit misinterpreted in the pod…? I couldn’t find any amendments to that scheme in Feb 2018…
Opinions can differ immensely between people but we do need to get the facts right!
Thanks for letting me know 👍
I have an update from Nathan (below articles supplied) who was referring to these amendments made to the Financial Sector Legislation Amendment (Crisis Resolution Powers And Other Measures) bill in Feb 2018.
Please don’t shoot the messenger as I haven’t read any of these articles but I wanted Nathan to at least have a chance to comment on the matter.
Take them as you will.
Hi AFB (and anyone worried about their cash), re those links Nathan sent you, you’d be better off looking at the real thing – the Senate Committee’s review – see below. Those links he sent you are by people who have books to sell. Nathan really isn’t doing anyone any favours by spreading misinformation around.
https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Economics/CrisisResolutionPowers/Report/c02 – the paragraph below seems to state pretty clearly that bank deposits can’t be converted/written off.
” 2.56 The committee believes that the protection of depositors’ interests is paramount and does not consider that the bill would allow the ‘bail-in’ of Australians’ savings and deposits. The stability of the financial system depends on its depositors having confidence in its financial institutions. By ensuring the security of depositors’ savings, the overall protection of the financial system can be ensured.”
I ploughed my way through that Senate Committee review a while back, and from what I understand, it’s bank hybrids that could be converted or written off in a crisis, not deposits. So bank hybrids should be treated with extreme caution. If you don’t know what a bank hybrid is, there’s info about them here: https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/investing/complex-investments/hybrid-securities-and-notes/bank-hybrid-securities
AFB – I am guessing you interviewed Nathan as a way to increase your audience – yes? Controversy sells, after all. And I am also guessing that you’re trying to be neutral here – you don’t want to say anything that shits Nathan off.
It looks like you’re trying to tread a line here where you neither agree nor disagree with the guy, but I don’t think that works in this case. All you’ve ended up doing is adding to the misinformation Nathan is peddling, unfortunately.
In my humble view, you’d be better off getting off the fence and sharing your take on the guy with us – I suspect your followers would respect that.
This has certainly been quite controversial you’re right about that 😅.
Thanks for the follow up about the bill. From my own research, I agree that the FCS has not been removed which is why I added a note above. I thought it was only fair though that Nathan had the opportunity for rebuttal (whether you agree with those links or not). The podcast contains thoughts and opinions that everyone is entitled to. When there is blatant misinformation, I’ll look to clear it up (aka the note added above). My quick read from those links led me to believe that the authors are interpreting the amendments made last year in a certain way. Most other people (myself included) have not interpreted them that way.
A lot of what was said in the second half was drawing a long bow IMO but that’s not to say it’s impossible and cannot happen (hyperinflation, crypto currencies etc.).
Do I think those things are going to happen?
No, I do not.
Is Nathan entitled to have his opinion?
Nathan was interviewed first and foremost because he reached financial independence at 24 with an incredible and interesting story. The second half of this podcast was very… ah… different to say the least.
But almost all the comment here are focussing on the second half. At the very least is there nothing to take away from his story of hard work and dedication in the beginning?
My take on Nathan is he most certainly benefited from a housing boom and took enoumouse risk to get where he is today. He has very alternative views on the ‘system’, many of which I do not share.
IMO he was an interesting guest with an interesting story. That’s really all there was to it 🤷♂️
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, AFB – much appreciated. And yes, I agree that the first half of the interview with Nathan on his early days was pretty darn interesting. Listening to your pod certainly jazzed up my Saturday house cleaning – thanks! 🙂
Interesting interview, thanks AFB. Have you done any fact checking on Nathan? I noticed two factual errors in his statements, which makes me wonder if there could be more. The ones I noted were – 1) he said the Australian dollar was introduced in 1971 (it was actually 1966) and 2) he said the government bank guarantee of $250k was removed in February (I assume he meant Feb 2018 as you said the interview was recorded last year) – but I see the moneysmart websitre says the guarantee is still in place. These made me feel not very confident about his veracity. Otherwise good on you for an interesting podcast.
I have added a note above to clear up the comments made about the FCS. Not sure about the dollar one sorry.
I don’t fact check everything my guests say, but I felt the obligations to add a note in for the FCS as this could have serious consequences for anyone listening even though nothing on this site should ever be considered financial advice.
Thanks for letting me know Sue 🙂
I listened to the whole show. Im a Snr finance exec and the guy was sounding a little crazy towards the end of the show.
He has taken huge risks to create great wealth during a huge property boom.
Wow. Some controversial views presented here. Certainly food for thought. Thanks
My, that was, what’s the word….’bracing’!
I thought you did a good job in drawing him out on some of the more practical ‘how did you do it’ material.
One point I wanted to correct when listening, he’s wrong to say that the yield curve always predicts a severe financial market event.
It does tend to forecast recessions, but not invariably. It reminds me of the old quote about the stock market predicting 9 out of the last 5 recessions! 🙂
I thought he had a pretty interesting story whether you agree with his strategy or not. It has certainly struck a chord with some (for better or worse).
I think this is one of the of those episodes you either love or hate (like my Collingwood Magpies 😂)
Sounded like a snake oil salesman to me.
I appreciate AFB for providing the perspective, even though I don’t agree. His thoughts on the devaluation of money, based on money creation by governments doesn’t hold water. In spite of the belief that we’re heading off a cliff, our trajectory is far more positive than scary and more people than ever are enjoying better health and wealth. Check out the book “Factfulness: Ten Reasons We’re Wrong About the World–and Why Things Are Better Than You Think” by Hans Rosling. Financial systems not withstanding, things are getting better definitively and for more people than just Mr. Birch.
Fergy, you are awesome.
AFB love your stuff man. Nathan was a hard one to listen to.
Saving is a losing game.
Use leverage to your advantage.
Crypto can’t be manipulated.
I’m in the camp of Peter Thornhill.
So while I was listening I was trying to be open minded and see if the problems I had with this were my own biases but even when I try to argue for his side I just can’t make sense of it. I feel as though, since Nathan has “made it” he has probably got stuck in an echo chamber of conspiracy after conspiracy.
The easiest thing to sell online is fear and doubt. Maybe he should read Ray Dalio’s principals of big debt crisis.
Failing that, we should by guns and canned food and wait for the apocalypse.
But I’ll probably just stick to P.T’s advice
I’ve been looking into the dollar devaluing as the podcast piqued my interest.
Would anyone be able to help me understand the following statistics?
Gold value in 2005 was approx $550 AUD, and then in 2018 was approx $1650 AUD – a 300% increase in dollar terms.
$550 of AUD in 2005 would be valued $751 in 2018 – a 37% increase in dollar terms.
Why is there such a discrepancy between the AUD and gold price, that inflation doesn’t seem to account for?
The AUD was worth 0.76 USD in 2005, and 0.78 in 2018, so the currency worth versus the USD seems unrelated.
My references for the above are as below:
My bet is he gets none of his predictions on this podcast right.
He came across like someone who has too much time and is into conspiracy theories.
Wow! When did Nathan Birch turn into a crazy Reddit Cripto nutter? Last I heard of him was a news article about him defaulting on a apartment in Queensland.
Crap! what a waste of time that was…
Hopefully the next guess is a bit more like minded to the FIRE way of life…
Have you ever reached out to Peter Wargent http://petewargent.blogspot.com/
His blog is worth a read. He has a very interesting background, is financially independent, invests in both property and shares and his research and opinions are based by evidence, common sense and extensive research.
No I haven’t. I’ll have a look now mate. Thanks for the lead 😊
Good luck with it. He’s big on using Shares, real estate and business to reach financial independence and he prefers LIC’S as his investment choice, from my understanding.
This guy sounded very sus right from the beginning. Tried to hear him out but once he started giving views on the dollar, economy and the future, he lost me. He drops technical sounding words without understanding what they mean. I thought I’d check out the comments before wasting more of my time. I’m glad I did. Please don’t give air to bs artists like this bloke. Your podcasts are usually very interesting, but this doesn’t do you any favours.
Wow. An interview for the tin foil hat community… what a nutter!! I can’t believe you didn’t ask him about the moon landing and flat earth theory.
Love the podcast AFB, but this guy ranted about the same delusions over and over again. A bit of editing might’ve been appropriate to cut down the duration of this platform… erm I mean, podcast.
I don’t really like to cut out anything from the podcasts. I let the conversion go where it goes and try to reel it in back to the topic where I can. Nath’s an extremely interesting character that’s for sure. He has a lot of alternative views but I thought he was a good sport to come on the pod and chat about his life/money/everything else.
Hi all, late comment but thought I would give my first hand experience using their buyers agency service,
I purchased 7 propertys through binvested before I woke up.
stradegy for Nathan is to try sell you cheapy propertys so you can buy more as each fee was 10k
so all up 70k
His bogus spread sheets factor in say a kitchen reno for $5k…. yea right!
TO THIS DAY EACH PROPERTY IS STILL NEGATIVE GEARD!
Dont believe his dodgy spead sheets.
I do believe I got one decent property at the start and the rest are garbage grade investment propertys.
Also regarding superanuation
Dont let this crook spruik how he will get your super growing, Go’s like this…sets you up with someone in inside the company to set up A SMSF , I had approx 180k so ye maybe enough to comfortably buy 1 IP but no they keep hounding to buy 2,
one property i paid over 200k with fees ect.. and 3 yrs later dropped in value to 145k once valued and the other has so many structual issues its cost me an addition 60k to bandaid and will continue to move on its slab.
just to break even , I have had to contribute 25k into my SMSF to just break even since late 2015 to early 2020
If i had left it in super EVEN with the corona finacial crash I would have been miles infront and 1/4 the stress.
the final nail……
e.g. My last property purchase was a 2 bed unit in cairns for a litle over 100k and still pay a 10k fee
THATS 10% plus stamp duty ,the property is still negative 3k a year, the area is an absolute dive,
Any one wanting to invest in property, go and listen to the first 10 episodes of the
PROPERTY COUCH pod cast as they tel you the truth of an investment grade property and they dont use scare tactics like “YOU HAVE TO SIGN THE PAPERS TODAY OR THE SELLER WONT SELL”
I think he maybe was god in the early days but my use from 2015-17 was and still treading water, no thanks,
Really double check his spread sheets if you do decide to use and NEVER let them try to con you into buying site unseen.
At least his not trying to sell you off the plan dog kennel like the really bad as spruikers though.
I really should have done more due diligence , my bad also.
his birchfeed is also a good read, thats about all i can say of utilising.
Good luck all
Nathan’s Instagram says: “I do not wear a mask because nobody has paid me to be a “crisis actors” (sic)”. Then follows up with a comment about the world having a fake illness and North Korea propaganda actors.
Regarding links 2 and 3 that Nathan provided, they are from the Australian Citizens Party. The Wikipedia (yeah okay not a scholarly source but the following extracts are from mainstream media).
“The party follows the LaRouche line of climate change denial towards the theory of anthropogenic global warming, referring to fears of global warming as “Hitler-Nazi race science”. The party espouses the claim that the Port Arthur massacre, in which Martin Bryant murdered 35 people and injured 37 others, was instigated by mental health institute the Tavistock Institute on the orders of the British Royal Family. and that the Australian Liberal party was founded by pro-Hitler Fascists.”
I’m just going to file this under: 🙄 and a wish for a tin foil hat emoji.